Comments on: DATallegro’s technical strategy http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/ Choices in data management and analysis Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:33:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » And then there were two: DATAllegro seems to be going with standard hardware http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-16581 DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » And then there were two: DATAllegro seems to be going with standard hardware Sat, 27 Jan 2007 07:33:56 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-16581 [...] A while ago – for example, in a comment dated July 9, 2006 — CEO Stuart Frost of DATAllegro hinted that the company might port its software to commodity hardware before long. If this user story is to be believed, that has now happened. (Specific quote: “the Datallegro system is based on Dell and EMC hardware …”) Officially, the company is pulling a Sgt. Schultz on the subject. But the evidence is pretty clear. MORE And so it would seem that Netezza and Teradata are the only remaining data warehouse appliance vendors committed to custom hardware strategies. [...] [...] A while ago – for example, in a comment dated July 9, 2006 — CEO Stuart Frost of DATAllegro hinted that the company might port its software to commodity hardware before long. If this user story is to be believed, that has now happened. (Specific quote: “the Datallegro system is based on Dell and EMC hardware …”) Officially, the company is pulling a Sgt. Schultz on the subject. But the evidence is pretty clear. MORE And so it would seem that Netezza and Teradata are the only remaining data warehouse appliance vendors committed to custom hardware strategies. [...]

]]> By: DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Competitive issues in data warehouse ease of administration http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-7164 DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Competitive issues in data warehouse ease of administration Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:47:07 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-7164 [...] DATallegro has almost no indices, and also has preconfigured hardware. But it has some partitioning, optionally. [...] [...] DATallegro has almost no indices, and also has preconfigured hardware. But it has some partitioning, optionally. [...]

]]> By: DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Dealing with Netezza has not been easy http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-6728 DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Dealing with Netezza has not been easy Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:29:24 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-6728 [...] Over the past year, Netezza has exhibited the squirreliest question-dodging behavior I’ve seen from a DBMS vendor since – actually, since Sybase tried to conceal the System 10 fiasco in 1993-5. To its credit, however, Netezza finally decided to open the kimono. Specifically, they invited me to their user conference, which I attended today, and indeed were quite helpful in FINALLY getting my questions addressed, and in offering more access as needed. [...] [...] Over the past year, Netezza has exhibited the squirreliest question-dodging behavior I’ve seen from a DBMS vendor since – actually, since Sybase tried to conceal the System 10 fiasco in 1993-5. To its credit, however, Netezza finally decided to open the kimono. Specifically, they invited me to their user conference, which I attended today, and indeed were quite helpful in FINALLY getting my questions addressed, and in offering more access as needed. [...]

]]> By: DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Is data warehousing now all about sequential access? http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-6329 DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » Is data warehousing now all about sequential access? Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:20:40 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-6329 [...] Data warehouse appliances (see especially this discussion of DATallegro’s architecture) [...] [...] Data warehouse appliances (see especially this discussion of DATallegro’s architecture) [...]

]]> By: The Monash Report»Blog Archive » Virtualization seems somewhat overhyped http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-3178 The Monash Report»Blog Archive » Virtualization seems somewhat overhyped Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:33:04 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-3178 [...] Virtualization is in many ways pure goodness, just as proponents say. But even so, I think it’s being overhyped. As software, hardware, and processor vendors all get larger, economies of scale are allowing very tight development coupling so as to optimize performance, power usage, etc. For example, I’m running into Intel engineers at almost every large company I follow. If you buy software — and who builds their own if they don’t have to? — you’re now likely to get something that’s been carefully optimized for very specific operating environments. And then there are appliances, which are still trending up, not down. (See also what Stuart Frost of DATallegro has to say on that point.) Or check out this ostensibly pro-virtualization article that really is in agreement for me. [...] [...] Virtualization is in many ways pure goodness, just as proponents say. But even so, I think it’s being overhyped. As software, hardware, and processor vendors all get larger, economies of scale are allowing very tight development coupling so as to optimize performance, power usage, etc. For example, I’m running into Intel engineers at almost every large company I follow. If you buy software — and who builds their own if they don’t have to? — you’re now likely to get something that’s been carefully optimized for very specific operating environments. And then there are appliances, which are still trending up, not down. (See also what Stuart Frost of DATallegro has to say on that point.) Or check out this ostensibly pro-virtualization article that really is in agreement for me. [...]

]]> By: Stuart Frost http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-3073 Stuart Frost Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:30:49 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-3073 You're absolutely right about 'virtualized multi-purpose grids' or anything else where we don't have full control of every aspect of the software and hardware platform. Data warehousing is just too extreme in terms of both I/O and CPU power to work through so many layers of infrastructure. The whole idea of the appliance concept is that the vendor takes responsibility for the entire stack. The end result is greatly reduced setup and maintenance efforts on the part of the customer and a lot less pain for the DBA. Stuart You’re absolutely right about ‘virtualized multi-purpose grids’ or anything else where we don’t have full control of every aspect of the software and hardware platform. Data warehousing is just too extreme in terms of both I/O and CPU power to work through so many layers of infrastructure. The whole idea of the appliance concept is that the vendor takes responsibility for the entire stack. The end result is greatly reduced setup and maintenance efforts on the part of the customer and a lot less pain for the DBA.

Stuart

]]> By: The Monash Report»Blog Archive » Appliances are not dead yet http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2987 The Monash Report»Blog Archive » Appliances are not dead yet Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:30:14 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2987 [...] A good illustration of these points may be found in an exchange I had with Stuart Frost, CEO of DATallegro. DATallegro is a data warehouse appliance maker heavily optimized for streaming data on and off disk, moving it between mulitiple processors, and making the best use of onboard cache, memory bus, etc. Stuart thinks it’s likely that he could get much of the same benefit from shipping on a known configuration of name-brand equipment. But I can’t imagine any way that DATallegro’s software would work well on any kind of virtualized multi-purpose grid kind of setup. Blech. The vast majority of their engineering would be simply wasted. [...] [...] A good illustration of these points may be found in an exchange I had with Stuart Frost, CEO of DATallegro. DATallegro is a data warehouse appliance maker heavily optimized for streaming data on and off disk, moving it between mulitiple processors, and making the best use of onboard cache, memory bus, etc. Stuart thinks it’s likely that he could get much of the same benefit from shipping on a known configuration of name-brand equipment. But I can’t imagine any way that DATallegro’s software would work well on any kind of virtualized multi-purpose grid kind of setup. Blech. The vast majority of their engineering would be simply wasted. [...]

]]> By: Stuart Frost http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2825 Stuart Frost Mon, 10 Jul 2006 03:33:11 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2825 Now that's an interesting question! I believe we're unique among the DW appliance vendors wrt using 100% commodity hardware, so it is possible for us to 'port' our software to another platform. If we were to specify a specific combination of hardware from a third-party vendor, we could maintain the benefits of the appliance approach, while at the same time allowing customers to use hardware from their preferred vendors. However, the hardware cost would be significantly higher, so there would be some trade-offs in that area. We'd also need to assess the performance of the available storage systems and dedicate a set of disks to each CPU. Even so, I think we would still be extremely competitive on price and performance. Stuart Now that’s an interesting question!

I believe we’re unique among the DW appliance vendors wrt using 100% commodity hardware, so it is possible for us to ‘port’ our software to another platform.

If we were to specify a specific combination of hardware from a third-party vendor, we could maintain the benefits of the appliance approach, while at the same time allowing customers to use hardware from their preferred vendors. However, the hardware cost would be significantly higher, so there would be some trade-offs in that area. We’d also need to assess the performance of the available storage systems and dedicate a set of disks to each CPU. Even so, I think we would still be extremely competitive on price and performance.

Stuart

]]> By: DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » OS-DBMS integration http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2824 DBMS2 — DataBase Management System Services»Blog Archive » OS-DBMS integration Mon, 10 Jul 2006 02:55:34 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2824 [...] The data warehousing appliance vendors integrate DBMS and OS. Stuart Frost of DATallegro made some excellent, detailed comments in this thread laying out that case. [...] [...] The data warehousing appliance vendors integrate DBMS and OS. Stuart Frost of DATallegro made some excellent, detailed comments in this thread laying out that case. [...]

]]> By: Curt Monash http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2819 Curt Monash Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:15:14 +0000 http://www.dbms2.com/2006/07/03/datallegro%e2%80%99s-technical-strategy/#comment-2819 Stuart, Thanks for the further correction on the Infiniband point -- and I hope you slept well! :) Now, since you stressed the appliance approach, a natural follow-up question occurs to me. Suppose you were to port your software to a large hardware vendor's system -- what, if anything, would be lost in the translation? CAM Stuart,

Thanks for the further correction on the Infiniband point — and I hope you slept well! :)

Now, since you stressed the appliance approach, a natural follow-up question occurs to me. Suppose you were to port your software to a large hardware vendor’s system — what, if anything, would be lost in the translation?

CAM

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