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	<title>Comments on: What hard-core transactional applications have actually been built in MySQL, PostgreSQL, EnterpriseDB, or FileMaker?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/</link>
	<description>Choices in data management and analysis</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 22:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: DBNews 2007 #4 &#124; PettiNix</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-70607</link>
		<dc:creator>DBNews 2007 #4 &#124; PettiNix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-70607</guid>
		<description>[...] paio di letture da consigliare questa settimana, la prima del solito DBMS2 dal titolo &#8221; What hard-core transactional applications have actually been built in MySQL, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] paio di letture da consigliare questa settimana, la prima del solito DBMS2 dal titolo &#8221; What hard-core transactional applications have actually been built in MySQL, [&#8230;]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Log Buffer #82: a Carnival of the Vanities for DBAs</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-70339</link>
		<dc:creator>Log Buffer #82: a Carnival of the Vanities for DBAs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-70339</guid>
		<description>[...] is perhaps what Curt Monash of DBMS2 does when he groups it (and others) with FileMaker. He asks, &#8220;What hard-core transactional applications have actually been built in MySQL, PostgreSQL, Ente.... And he gets plenty of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is perhaps what Curt Monash of DBMS2 does when he groups it (and others) with FileMaker. He asks, &#8220;What hard-core transactional applications have actually been built in MySQL, PostgreSQL, Ente&#8230;. And he gets plenty of [&#8230;]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69806</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69806</guid>
		<description>Paul,

Your comment on brokerage reminds me of the fantasy stock market www.blogshares.com Data corruption is so common they have a UI feature that adds up total stockholdings, compares to shares outstanding, and notes the difference between the two figures that of course should ALWAYS be identical.

If ACID is what one is looking for, Blogshares has pH around 12.  Over a serious DBMS, it would take real effort to build an app that bad.

I greatly doubt the Blogshares folks used InnoDB.

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>Your comment on brokerage reminds me of the fantasy stock market <a href="http://www.blogshares.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogshares.com</a> Data corruption is so common they have a UI feature that adds up total stockholdings, compares to shares outstanding, and notes the difference between the two figures that of course should ALWAYS be identical.</p>
<p>If ACID is what one is looking for, Blogshares has pH around 12.  Over a serious DBMS, it would take real effort to build an app that bad.</p>
<p>I greatly doubt the Blogshares folks used InnoDB.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PaulM</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69686</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69686</guid>
		<description>Interesting set of statistics from various comments.

The 8 billion transactions per day is some kind of telco or financial company. If it was a brokerage given the data, the 7000 or so mysql instances would equate to one instance per equity/stock.
At least seeing what other vendors with large web traffic have done, it would suggest you would shard on each equity. If it was a telco, shard on each district/street code. Then aggregrate into another database.

In terms of the usage outlined by Jay none of our mysql customers come close, though I will check where they do rank. The day job I am talking about...

Have Fun
Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting set of statistics from various comments.</p>
<p>The 8 billion transactions per day is some kind of telco or financial company. If it was a brokerage given the data, the 7000 or so mysql instances would equate to one instance per equity/stock.<br />
At least seeing what other vendors with large web traffic have done, it would suggest you would shard on each equity. If it was a telco, shard on each district/street code. Then aggregrate into another database.</p>
<p>In terms of the usage outlined by Jay none of our mysql customers come close, though I will check where they do rank. The day job I am talking about&#8230;</p>
<p>Have Fun<br />
Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69678</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69678</guid>
		<description>John,

That dotlrn.org one looks interesting.  Thanks!

I'll add them to the tags on the original post and see if anybody magically shows up on reindexing. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>That dotlrn.org one looks interesting.  Thanks!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll add them to the tags on the original post and see if anybody magically shows up on reindexing. <img src='http://www.dbms2.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: John Sequeira</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69650</link>
		<dc:creator>John Sequeira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69650</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah -- dotlrn.org is an LMS that runs on postgresql and is heavy-duty transactional using triggers/DRI/etc. 

I know they have multiple 10K+ user deployments, though you'd could get better stats by reaching out on their bboards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah &#8212; dotlrn.org is an LMS that runs on postgresql and is heavy-duty transactional using triggers/DRI/etc. </p>
<p>I know they have multiple 10K+ user deployments, though you&#8217;d could get better stats by reaching out on their bboards.</p>
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		<title>By: John Sequeira</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69649</link>
		<dc:creator>John Sequeira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69649</guid>
		<description>I don't have the detailed first-hand knowledge you're looking for, but for some second hand info check out '12 Days of Scale out'

http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/?year=2007

And less recently, Sabre is the highest profile non-wikipedia,-yahoo,or-google mysql user that I know of.
http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/press-release/release_2003_33.html

You should be able to find case studies w/stats for Sabre 
Holdings online, because I believe their conversion from Oracle was celebrated at more than one mysql/oss user conferences.  Note that they used Golden Gate for replication when they decloaked, but I still count that as a huge MySQL success.

Facebook and Youtube (and yahoo/google) are mammoth mysql deployments but I believe sizing details have not been published.  I have seen/heard several conference video/podcasts on these but they've been cagey on the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have the detailed first-hand knowledge you&#8217;re looking for, but for some second hand info check out &#8216;12 Days of Scale out&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/?year=2007" rel="nofollow">http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/?year=2007</a></p>
<p>And less recently, Sabre is the highest profile non-wikipedia,-yahoo,or-google mysql user that I know of.<br />
<a href="http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/press-release/release_2003_33.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mysql.com/news-and-events/press-release/release_2003_33.html</a></p>
<p>You should be able to find case studies w/stats for Sabre<br />
Holdings online, because I believe their conversion from Oracle was celebrated at more than one mysql/oss user conferences.  Note that they used Golden Gate for replication when they decloaked, but I still count that as a huge MySQL success.</p>
<p>Facebook and Youtube (and yahoo/google) are mammoth mysql deployments but I believe sizing details have not been published.  I have seen/heard several conference video/podcasts on these but they&#8217;ve been cagey on the details.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69642</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69642</guid>
		<description>Jay,

There are two intertwined sets of issues here:

1. Does a DBMS have what it takes to support traditional, complex OLTP applications? 
2. Does it matter whether a DBMS has what it takes to support traditional, complex OLTP applications?

If I had to pick, I'd say the second one is more interesting, even though in this thread I'm focusing somewhat more on the first.

Obviously, an extreme "No" to #2 is ridiculous, but even so opinions can differ a lot.  As they used to say at the Kennedy School, where you stand depends upon where you sit.

As for what would be a complex OLTP app -- well, ERP and airline reservations are probably the top two examples.  The latter is what Dan Weinreb posted about in another thread.  The former is why I say that anything with SAP certification -- something MySQL so far has been unable to achieve -- is ipso facto capable of handling them.  But I'm trying not to be that simplistic.

Besides, SAP itself doesn't really believe in complex relational data modeling any more for its new application development.  I've posted about that several times, I think.

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,</p>
<p>There are two intertwined sets of issues here:</p>
<p>1. Does a DBMS have what it takes to support traditional, complex OLTP applications?<br />
2. Does it matter whether a DBMS has what it takes to support traditional, complex OLTP applications?</p>
<p>If I had to pick, I&#8217;d say the second one is more interesting, even though in this thread I&#8217;m focusing somewhat more on the first.</p>
<p>Obviously, an extreme &#8220;No&#8221; to #2 is ridiculous, but even so opinions can differ a lot.  As they used to say at the Kennedy School, where you stand depends upon where you sit.</p>
<p>As for what would be a complex OLTP app &#8212; well, ERP and airline reservations are probably the top two examples.  The latter is what Dan Weinreb posted about in another thread.  The former is why I say that anything with SAP certification &#8212; something MySQL so far has been unable to achieve &#8212; is ipso facto capable of handling them.  But I&#8217;m trying not to be that simplistic.</p>
<p>Besides, SAP itself doesn&#8217;t really believe in complex relational data modeling any more for its new application development.  I&#8217;ve posted about that several times, I think.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Pipes</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69617</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Pipes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69617</guid>
		<description>Curt,

OK, thanks for pointing to your services and explaining things; that is appreciated.

Re: whether the company I mentioned above uses triggers, SPs, and declarative integrity, I'm not sure at all.  I can inquire, though.  

Cheers,

Jay

p.s.  It might assist others looking to answer your post question if you gave us an example of something you're thinking about.  Are you talking about financials?  ERPs?  Something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curt,</p>
<p>OK, thanks for pointing to your services and explaining things; that is appreciated.</p>
<p>Re: whether the company I mentioned above uses triggers, SPs, and declarative integrity, I&#8217;m not sure at all.  I can inquire, though.  </p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Jay</p>
<p>p.s.  It might assist others looking to answer your post question if you gave us an example of something you&#8217;re thinking about.  Are you talking about financials?  ERPs?  Something else?</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69611</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/2008/01/28/filemaker-enterprisedb-postgresql-mysql-applications/#comment-69611</guid>
		<description>Frank,

I can't think of a better way of disagreeing with you than to simply repeat what I've already said in this thread.

So I'll save myself the typing and let it go.

CAM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank,</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t think of a better way of disagreeing with you than to simply repeat what I&#8217;ve already said in this thread.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;ll save myself the typing and let it go.</p>
<p>CAM</p>
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