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	<title>Comments on: Patent nonsense in the data warehouse DBMS market</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/</link>
	<description>Choices in data management and analysis</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:09:32 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Vertica slaughters Sybase in patent litigation &#124; DBMS2 -- DataBase Management System Services</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-155862</link>
		<dc:creator>Vertica slaughters Sybase in patent litigation &#124; DBMS2 -- DataBase Management System Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-155862</guid>
		<description>[...] in August, 2008, I pooh-poohed Sybase&#8217;s patent lawsuit against Vertica. Filed in the notoriously patent-holder-friendly East Texas courts, the suit basically claimed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in August, 2008, I pooh-poohed Sybase&#8217;s patent lawsuit against Vertica. Filed in the notoriously patent-holder-friendly East Texas courts, the suit basically claimed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent McBurney</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-94788</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent McBurney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-94788</guid>
		<description>Thanks for responding Stuart.  I think we would be better off with less software patents and I hope this doesn&#039;t get in the way of Microsoft rolling out some useful database acceleration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for responding Stuart.  I think we would be better off with less software patents and I hope this doesn&#8217;t get in the way of Microsoft rolling out some useful database acceleration.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Frost</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-94744</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Frost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-94744</guid>
		<description>Vincent,

You are, of course, correct in stating that inventors have an obligation to disclose prior art to the patent office. However, it&#039;s very difficult to prove that someone was aware of a particular set of documents (unless you can prove a clear link via, say, an advisory relationship between the inventor and one of the gurus in the field).

In the patent in question, all of the prior art listed was raised by the patent examiner (shown by having * next to the reference).

As for whether I should have submitted prior art to the patent office, that would be a very unusual step. However, I&#039;d agree that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Also, there&#039;s no restriction on anyone putting forward prior art even after a patent is granted and asking for a re-examination.

Just because I didn&#039;t do it earlier doesn&#039;t make it wrong now. Nor does it say anything about the validity or strength of my position.

Stuart Frost
CEO, DATAllegro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vincent,</p>
<p>You are, of course, correct in stating that inventors have an obligation to disclose prior art to the patent office. However, it&#8217;s very difficult to prove that someone was aware of a particular set of documents (unless you can prove a clear link via, say, an advisory relationship between the inventor and one of the gurus in the field).</p>
<p>In the patent in question, all of the prior art listed was raised by the patent examiner (shown by having * next to the reference).</p>
<p>As for whether I should have submitted prior art to the patent office, that would be a very unusual step. However, I&#8217;d agree that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Also, there&#8217;s no restriction on anyone putting forward prior art even after a patent is granted and asking for a re-examination.</p>
<p>Just because I didn&#8217;t do it earlier doesn&#8217;t make it wrong now. Nor does it say anything about the validity or strength of my position.</p>
<p>Stuart Frost<br />
CEO, DATAllegro</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent McBurney</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-94527</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent McBurney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-94527</guid>
		<description>I think Stuart is barking up the wrong tree with prior art.  If he knew prior art was missing from the submission &quot;before it was submitted&quot; as he claims then he was free to submit his own prior art.  Anyone can submit prior art against a patent claim.  He could even do so anonymously.

Furthermore, under laws of disclosure, if the patent attorney who submitted the claim knew of any prior art they were legally obliged to disclose it.  If there was any blantant prior art out there at the time they would have been foolish to ignore or hide it.

If Stuart thought the patent submission was invalid you&#039;ve got to wonder why two years later he submitted his own patent with much the same technology - &quot;Ultra-shared-nothing parallel database&quot;.

This case has a smoking gun, if Microsoft cannot invalidate the patent they are gone.  Injunction.  However it&#039;s going to take several years to get to that point and they may settle before then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Stuart is barking up the wrong tree with prior art.  If he knew prior art was missing from the submission &#8220;before it was submitted&#8221; as he claims then he was free to submit his own prior art.  Anyone can submit prior art against a patent claim.  He could even do so anonymously.</p>
<p>Furthermore, under laws of disclosure, if the patent attorney who submitted the claim knew of any prior art they were legally obliged to disclose it.  If there was any blantant prior art out there at the time they would have been foolish to ignore or hide it.</p>
<p>If Stuart thought the patent submission was invalid you&#8217;ve got to wonder why two years later he submitted his own patent with much the same technology &#8211; &#8220;Ultra-shared-nothing parallel database&#8221;.</p>
<p>This case has a smoking gun, if Microsoft cannot invalidate the patent they are gone.  Injunction.  However it&#8217;s going to take several years to get to that point and they may settle before then.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-94036</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-94036</guid>
		<description>Thanks.  I was guessing it was something like that. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.  I was guessing it was something like that. <img src='http://www.dbms2.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Laurent</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2008/08/14/patent-nonsense-in-the-data-warehouse-dbms-market/comment-page-1/#comment-93998</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=486#comment-93998</guid>
		<description>Patent cases are often filed in (East) Texas, because its judges are known to rule in favour of patent owners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patent cases are often filed in (East) Texas, because its judges are known to rule in favour of patent owners.</p>
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