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	<title>Comments on: Vertica customer notes</title>
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	<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/</link>
	<description>Choices in data management and analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-136548</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-136548</guid>
		<description>&quot;Bill&quot;,

You&#039;re confused on multiple levels.  First, you&#039;re mixing up ANSI with, I suppose, the FASB (or maybe the AICPA). Second, you&#039;re mixing up revenue recognition with a report of customer count.  Thirdly, while it is indeed the case that substantially all venture-backed companies are contractually required to have audited financial statements, what you said in that area is confused too.

And by the way, I was pretty involved in the setting of software industry accounting standards, back in the day. 

However, you are probably right that, instead of &quot;paying&quot; customers, I should ask about &quot;customers for whom license revenue has actually been recognized.&quot;

Thanks for at least refraining from your usual comment spamming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bill&#8221;,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re confused on multiple levels.  First, you&#8217;re mixing up ANSI with, I suppose, the FASB (or maybe the AICPA). Second, you&#8217;re mixing up revenue recognition with a report of customer count.  Thirdly, while it is indeed the case that substantially all venture-backed companies are contractually required to have audited financial statements, what you said in that area is confused too.</p>
<p>And by the way, I was pretty involved in the setting of software industry accounting standards, back in the day. </p>
<p>However, you are probably right that, instead of &#8220;paying&#8221; customers, I should ask about &#8220;customers for whom license revenue has actually been recognized.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for at least refraining from your usual comment spamming.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Walters</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-136495</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Walters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-136495</guid>
		<description>Bob Zurek; One thing that you can be certain of is that Vertica&#039;s customer count claims are gross exaggerations of the truth, they list 38 on their web site.  Curt is misinformed when he suggests that there is &quot;wiggle room&quot; for conditional contracts, there is not.  

All software companies incorporated in the USA must conform to ANSI accounting standards for reporting revenue and must be audited by an accredited accounting firm.  The rules that govern how revenue is recognized and hence who you can honestly call a customer are well defined.  There must be a license in place for the products that you are selling, a defined fee, and it must not be constrained by language that allows the customer to return the products for any reason such as acceptance wording based on performance criteria or even preferential pricing on product that is not yet completed.  Once the license is signed the company must demonstrate that they have physically delivered the software, if done through an FTP server the IP address must be provided.

Vertica&#039;s customer count includes companies that acquired others who actually hold the license for the product (Bear Stearns = JP Morgan)  Their count also includes many companies for which they cannot actually recognize the revenue because the customer has performance language in the contracts that allow them to back-out of the agreement if they want.  They also list companies as customer who paid a fraction, sometimes as little as 2-3%, of their published price.  Almost every start-up software company does this to generate buzz and interest in their company and Vertica is no different</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Zurek; One thing that you can be certain of is that Vertica&#8217;s customer count claims are gross exaggerations of the truth, they list 38 on their web site.  Curt is misinformed when he suggests that there is &#8220;wiggle room&#8221; for conditional contracts, there is not.  </p>
<p>All software companies incorporated in the USA must conform to ANSI accounting standards for reporting revenue and must be audited by an accredited accounting firm.  The rules that govern how revenue is recognized and hence who you can honestly call a customer are well defined.  There must be a license in place for the products that you are selling, a defined fee, and it must not be constrained by language that allows the customer to return the products for any reason such as acceptance wording based on performance criteria or even preferential pricing on product that is not yet completed.  Once the license is signed the company must demonstrate that they have physically delivered the software, if done through an FTP server the IP address must be provided.</p>
<p>Vertica&#8217;s customer count includes companies that acquired others who actually hold the license for the product (Bear Stearns = JP Morgan)  Their count also includes many companies for which they cannot actually recognize the revenue because the customer has performance language in the contracts that allow them to back-out of the agreement if they want.  They also list companies as customer who paid a fraction, sometimes as little as 2-3%, of their published price.  Almost every start-up software company does this to generate buzz and interest in their company and Vertica is no different</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno Kurtic</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-133899</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno Kurtic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-133899</guid>
		<description>SenSage is ODBC/JDBC compatible, however, it does also provides other methods of accessing the data (as Dave alludes above) including APIs (WS, Java, etc), unix tools, many data export formats.  This is designed to help very different customer groups within the same enterprise leverage the DW in a convenient/familiar way.

Product has been deployed in many large deployments for analysis of various types of enterprise data.  Here is a write up from EMC: http://www.emc.com/about/news/press/2009/20090601-01.htm along with a nice recognition (2008 EMC Partner Solution of the Year Award) for the many DW solutions deployed jointly: http://tinyurl.com/l6s6qm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SenSage is ODBC/JDBC compatible, however, it does also provides other methods of accessing the data (as Dave alludes above) including APIs (WS, Java, etc), unix tools, many data export formats.  This is designed to help very different customer groups within the same enterprise leverage the DW in a convenient/familiar way.</p>
<p>Product has been deployed in many large deployments for analysis of various types of enterprise data.  Here is a write up from EMC: <a href="http://www.emc.com/about/news/press/2009/20090601-01.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.emc.com/about/news/press/2009/20090601-01.htm</a> along with a nice recognition (2008 EMC Partner Solution of the Year Award) for the many DW solutions deployed jointly: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/l6s6qm" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/l6s6qm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Curt Monash</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-133737</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Monash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-133737</guid>
		<description>I answered offline to Bob, by the way, as he repeated the question there, and most of his questions are irrelevant to a closed-source vendor anyway.

Vertica has been a bit aggressive in its customer counts in the past, but now seems pretty good at only counting outfits with which it has executed a purchase agreement. That leaves a little wiggle room for conditional contracts or whatever, but only a little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I answered offline to Bob, by the way, as he repeated the question there, and most of his questions are irrelevant to a closed-source vendor anyway.</p>
<p>Vertica has been a bit aggressive in its customer counts in the past, but now seems pretty good at only counting outfits with which it has executed a purchase agreement. That leaves a little wiggle room for conditional contracts or whatever, but only a little.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-133735</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-133735</guid>
		<description>The Sensage &quot;database&quot; doesnt support ODBC/JDBC. You have to use their tools which are built for reading unix security logs. Vertica is better suited for a data warehouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Sensage &#8220;database&#8221; doesnt support ODBC/JDBC. You have to use their tools which are built for reading unix security logs. Vertica is better suited for a data warehouse.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Zurek</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-132001</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Zurek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-132001</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very curious about how one defines a customer as I have heard all kinds of approaches on this topic. For example, are you a customer if you tried the product, paid for a POC but never purchased the product (whether perpetual license or subscription)? 
This is just one example. Are you a customer if you purchased anything services, product, documentation, training, etc. Some businesses would say yes definitely, if an exchange of money took place then YES they are a customer for sure. Wall Street doesn&#039;t care.  They do care about services versus product revenues. 

Curt, how do you define a customer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very curious about how one defines a customer as I have heard all kinds of approaches on this topic. For example, are you a customer if you tried the product, paid for a POC but never purchased the product (whether perpetual license or subscription)?<br />
This is just one example. Are you a customer if you purchased anything services, product, documentation, training, etc. Some businesses would say yes definitely, if an exchange of money took place then YES they are a customer for sure. Wall Street doesn&#8217;t care.  They do care about services versus product revenues. </p>
<p>Curt, how do you define a customer?</p>
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		<title>By: Imre</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-131814</link>
		<dc:creator>Imre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-131814</guid>
		<description>HadoopDB vs. Vertica   [ performance ]
http://db.cs.yale.edu/hadoopdb/hadoopdb.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HadoopDB vs. Vertica   [ performance ]<br />
<a href="http://db.cs.yale.edu/hadoopdb/hadoopdb.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://db.cs.yale.edu/hadoopdb/hadoopdb.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Urca Braz</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-131578</link>
		<dc:creator>Urca Braz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-131578</guid>
		<description>hmmm, link in posting above doesn&#039;t work, try http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671&amp;privcapId=12966384&amp;previousCapId=18561&amp;previousTitle=Accel%20Partners</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmm, link in posting above doesn&#8217;t work, try <a href="http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671&amp;privcapId=12966384&amp;previousCapId=18561&amp;previousTitle=Accel%20Partners" rel="nofollow">http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671&amp;privcapId=12966384&amp;previousCapId=18561&amp;previousTitle=Accel%20Partners</a></p>
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		<title>By: Urca Braz</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-131557</link>
		<dc:creator>Urca Braz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-131557</guid>
		<description>I see SenSage is missing under the &quot;Companies and Products&quot; section just over there ---&gt;

Please find out more about the company and let us know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see SenSage is missing under the &#8220;Companies and Products&#8221; section just over there &#8212;&gt;</p>
<p>Please find out more about the company and let us know.</p>
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		<title>By: Urca Braz</title>
		<link>http://www.dbms2.com/2009/07/16/vertica-customer-notes/#comment-131552</link>
		<dc:creator>Urca Braz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dbms2.com/?p=842#comment-131552</guid>
		<description>That SenSage (started in 2001) is #2 in the columnar DB market rather than Vertica (started in 2005) isn&#039;t surprising.  They&#039;ve been around longer and have the security/ops-management domain expertise.  Their DB blew early competition away in terms of data compression &amp; query speed -- I&#039;ve heard Vertica is faster but for enterprises that want domain experience and high-touch service I&#039;m not sure that matters.

Stonebraker was a SenSage tech advisor in the early days (e.g., see http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671), not sure what current relationship is.  Apparently Stonebraker liked the columnar DB idea well enough to start Vertica.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That SenSage (started in 2001) is #2 in the columnar DB market rather than Vertica (started in 2005) isn&#8217;t surprising.  They&#8217;ve been around longer and have the security/ops-management domain expertise.  Their DB blew early competition away in terms of data compression &amp; query speed &#8212; I&#8217;ve heard Vertica is faster but for enterprises that want domain experience and high-touch service I&#8217;m not sure that matters.</p>
<p>Stonebraker was a SenSage tech advisor in the early days (e.g., see <a href="http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671)" rel="nofollow">http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=178671)</a>, not sure what current relationship is.  Apparently Stonebraker liked the columnar DB idea well enough to start Vertica.</p>
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